I don't believe in god; ALL of the following is just contemplation.
I like the idea that: for God, the past, the present and the future do not exist separately; everything is present to God.
The idea of a god that could possibly have created our universe being truly
omniscient (as in knows the future as well as the past and present of
all) is marvellous in theory, but to see eternity and infinity all at the
same time seems difficult as it requires infinite computing power (as in infinite time to relocate and process information). I
suppose if god is everything that ever was this is possible; we could
talk about an omniscience that predicts the future perfectly, well at
least for a certain relevant timeframe, and therefore has the ability
that you demand of this god, but would still be a living in the present
power.
For a god to know all of its states in time (configurations of the matter of infinite existence at all points) how is this mind linked? Linked by time itself;
by the physical? How is it possible for information to pass from the
infinite recesses of the eternal future to the infinite recesses of the
eternal past? It would have to be instantaneous, but for any given data
for say the present, to access any data from say any point in time in
eternity it could take an indeterminate amount of time to search through
the mind's pathways/databases? How also is data exchanged between
physical areas of the universe. There would have to be, again, some kind
of instant access (entanglemnt). But if the physical realm is infinite, how can
algorithms not spend all their time searching. How would this neural net
work/run?
If there is a god (deistic) that is everything it therefore follows that
we are part of that all and part of god. Therefore every action we take
is within god. I don't have any issue with this concept running in
tandem with free will. In such a scenario we are composed of matter
which god makes up, and his orchestration of said matter is in such a
way as the universe takes on the properties that it does. I see no
distinction here between what atoms do and what humans do. All our
actions would be under the umbrella of god, whilst our freewill is
maintained so too is the will of god as he wants things, and designs
things, and in fact orchestrates things to happen exactly as they do. He
would want us to have freewill so we may be inventive and evolve, yet
this is his design. I personally don't see a logical corrollary
incepting from the idea god knows all of eternity already. I would assume that god isn't omniscient entire, as in knows the
eternal future, but instead is able to calculate the future as he runs
everything from a base bottom up level.
So in conclusion: To say there is a conflict between freewill and god
having complete control of what makes up the universe is false if we all
are (part of) god.
If there was such a complex god you can be damn sure he has a plan
(predetermined goal) so I don't see an issue. Whether this god
knows all the eternal future, or only what extent of future he can
compute (say 5 billion years into the future in lieu of a final goal for
the universe) then I would say that is pretty well predetermined?
If god is the organisation inside of us, the design that drives matter
forward by his carefully weighted laws of physics etc. and also
maintains and computes all physical interactions within the universe
(namely us and our freewill) then his existence splices nicely alongside
freewill. God's freewill, and our freewill working in sync. Just one way it could work . . .
Suggestion: God is our freewill. God is everything, from how the
universe was designed to every action that now happens; as in god's will
has our freewill included within it. No conflict as god's will is
always in sync with ours, from bottom up. It is a symbiosis where the
freewill of all creatures is the will of god. The decisions are made by
both at the same time as the two can't be split.
If you are accepting my premise that the two freewills are combined but at
the same time assuming they are not. That is the conflict here. If you
accept that both freewills are combined, theoretically, then it makes
sense.
If you are still trying to split the two. They are combined. Try to accept
the premise. The very atoms in your body are maintained and orchestrated
by such a god; this would be so deeply seeded within us that our freewill is
not affected. They are two designs (ours and god's) moving in the same
direction. One can change one's mind all day long, that is the design
god intends, absolutely. I see no conflict; just needs the premise to be
accepted.
If the freewill of god and human is inextricably intertwined, as
intertwined as god is with every atom in the universe then this also
incorporates predestination too, as there is only one way it goes. We
are still free to choose as we wish; we can only choose this or that or
this, and that choice is the way it goes. So we are predestined to have
freewill. Remember, in the end, we only make one choice at any given
juncture/present. Only one choice, which is the choice that we make,
moves us forward into our predestined/predetermined future. You could
say the choice is made, but at the same time we still make it, because
the design is so deep down to the most intricate level that it is all
one.
I'm not talking about a god that is related to say religious
parameters directly. Whether you think the concept of god would be redundant or
not within my context wouldn't change the fact that this god is controlling all. You
could say that issues like sin etc. would be redundant as god
orchestrates all, and I would accept that the views which are presently
pedalled about what god is interested in would be redundant. All this
god would be interested in would be for life within our universe
evolving to an omega-type point. But we still would have to do it
ourselves, with god as an interwoven contributor.
But of course the intertwining of freewills of god and human doesn't
mean that god isn't just winging-it as we may also be just winging it,
with predestination not included, if he so wished (to be ignorant and
just react to what comes; don't humans do a combination of present based
reaction and predetermination/future orchestration?). It could work
either way because either way the god operates in the present as we do.
He would, assumedly, have reasonable prescient powers as he is all, but
not eternal prescience. All parties are free to change their minds at
any point, as there is only one future (there may be infinite possible
futures, but only one actual future that we move through and into.)
I don't think that absolute predestination is possible to orchestrate as
the physical world such a god would abide in and be linked to is not
capable of working within a neural type framework that would link such
an eternal god's faculties together across eternity.
If you choose to kill, it is god and you combined. If you choose to not kill, it is the will of god and you combined.
Assume that the freewill of god and the freewill of you is combined. You
can choose whatever direction you want. There are enough people to get
the job done that god wants done. If you rot in jail and don't procreate
that is yours and god's choice COMBINED. Enough people will make the
correct decisions with god, to get where we need to get to. The
individual is of no importance in the scheme. We all are part of the
game/wave of an evolving race.
Does a shared will repeal the concept of predestination? Or can one only do what one can do? One provides one's own destination?
Would this not happen with god to? The (limited (to a godlike timeframe))
predestination of god working in sync with a limited human
predestination?
Does this mean that we would be predestined to live in a world where free will is an illusion? (and indeed ask what free will really is?).
I have to say that I don't agree. The predestination is, I agree, not a
concrete, more the
discretion of the god and how he wishes to run it, lazily or with more
exactitude. The "illusion" suggestion doesn't hold. We are not only
individuals within the universe; there is a wave called humankind; it is
in god's interest to have some individuals falling by the wayside, in
the greater scheme, as all action whether positive or negative creates or forces a positive outcome on the back of human creativity. Freewill of the human isn't effected or affected by the freewill
of god because they are one and the same thing. You could say god's
freewill is more complex because his predestination skills should be
more developed but that doesn't change the fact such a god's freewill is
indivisible from our own, we both make the choice that is best for us
given: the circumstances, the neural pathways in the human brain, past
experiences, predictions of the effects of the decision, yadda yadda.
When god IS us; when god IS everything we are made of (indivisible
physically down to the most basest of constituents of matter), one
cannot in all reason expect the freewills of the god and the individual
to be divisible/separate-able.
Decisions on what we believe would
happen if the freewill of god and all the freewills of the universe,
indeed every single atom moving etc, were one, could differ. But if one can accept that these things could be one and the
same then this would mean a joined universal freewill.
If we are to question the concept of freewill itself from a purely
philosophical perspective (not the physical perspective I am presently
working within (my premise)) then that is a different conversation: as
in we don't have freewill because we are just atoms/molecules/synapses
reacting as they are designed to(naturally or by god) and so we have no
freewill. But I would apply this to god as well. For the type of deistic
god I am referring to is also composed of the physical and would be
subject to such an interpretation of freewill. As in if we have no
freewill, so god also has no freewill, because we only do what the
nature of what we consist of can do when challenged in any given
situation.
This thought process for me is a learning/defining experience as it is
questioning my theories/ideas of god in ways I haven't thought about
before (new territory). So the step by evolution of my conceptualisation
here is a work in progress
(hence the ranging/developing semantics if there is any). Also I am
trying to tempt people into making the step across this specific logical
barrier/impasse as a thought experiment, by appealing to their
conceived axioms in lieu of remoulding their thoughts along the lines of
how I see it, not as a definite explanation but as a plausible
possibility for All.
Ie: In descriptive terms sometimes it is necessary to emulate the POV of
the other side of the debate to draw them into your POV. There are many
ways to define the same process, when different views are taken:
I could say that god has freewill. A human has freewill. But both are
the same will as they are combined, without confusing the matter. I
myself do not believe this to be an issue; or in fact a definite, just a
possibility, so these conjecturalisations lend themselves to exploring
best ways of concisely defining terms ad hoc.
What if I said that one cannot "combine" things that aren't by nature separate. Isn't it just more concise to say that the will of a god is an
abstraction of the collection of all wills? And so not leaving
the question of individual free will in doubt.
No, I can't wholly agree with the abstraction description entire, as
it implies the will of god can only be equal at most to the sum of all
wills? I would say that the will of god/creative-source is the will of
people (whole universe's collective will sentient or basic (physical
properties etc.)) but also the will of god is more than the sum of all
within our scale of reference (which I could explain further but it eats
into my work in progress).
I see the will of the creative source (god) as one that orchestrates all
movement within the universe down to the finest degree, but is also a
whole sum more; and farther ranging in scope than we could possibly
envisage in any detail. I do not see the fact the will of god is a whole
lot more than the sum of all wills and computations of matter
interactions etc. as anything that eats into the ability of any one
individual or limited-collective to express their freewills in anyway
they see fit. The framework is supplied by the creator, is the creator,
and we are free to will whatever we wish, but obviously the framework we
function in is a limited one at present, until we can evolve to the
point of omni-like orchestration over this framework.
But of course we could go further to say that the limits of the human
physique and mind are direct restrictions on our freewill. Are we free
to move outside the atmosphere of the earth without a spacesuit? Some
could say this is possible in the future. So is the restriction time
related, as in I won't be able to enact this feat within my lifetime,
therefore I don't have freewill due to these out of my control
restrictions? Freewill of a human is limited by intrinsic nature of the
framework of creative source, freewill of creative source is limited by
intrinsic nature of protomatter/infinity. But freewill of human is FREE
within limits. Freewill of god is FREE within limits. So freewill is
mutually exclusive, and also one.
So the collective of all life and computing of matter within the universe constitutes the free will of god, at the same time as the free will of god constitutes the physical realm as they are one and the same, indivisible:
Without humans/Life having free will, as in the opportunity/facility/framework (Laws of Physics) to develop free will, god would have no freewill . . ? (something to think about at least).
What I find great is that for me the direction it moves in is out of the control of god (teaser).